VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 4: Cix Liv

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be part of us as we welcome Cix Liv of LIV, YUR and REK. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Transcript: 

Episode 4 – Cix Liv

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the way in which the world will play sports activities, work out and get match along with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field vr, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR gymnasium and convey a long time of expertise from creating a few of the largest health know-how corporations on the planet.

They’re bringing collectively one of the best and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Alright. Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. We now have a VR, AR, XR guru and pioneer right here with us right now, Cix Liv. Cix, thanks for being right here.

Cix Liv: Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: So why don’t we begin off, with you simply giving our viewers a fast intro into who you’re and your background.

Cix Liv: The story of San Francisco, why I got here up right here is definitely a humorous one. I’ll inform it actual rapidly. After I initially got here to the West coast, I used to be initially from the Midwest. I used to be from Minnesota, [00:01:00] Colorado, Minnesota.

And what introduced me to the West Coast is I used to be promoting laptop {hardware}, and I saved delivery it again to a spot known as Metropolis of Trade. I heard that identify and I used to be, like, “wow.” You understand, like, Metropolis of Trade, proper? I used to be simply so fucking bored with how chilly the Midwest was, and I might all the time joke with my pals that sometime I’m gonna get in a automobile, I’m gonna drive to the West Coast and also you’re by no means gonna see my ass once more. And I did that. I did that in the future, and I confirmed up in Metropolis of Trade, which is outdoors of Los Angeles, and it’s simply, the warehouses, proper?

Yeah, I confirmed up there and I used to be like residing in a fucking warehouse. Undoubtedly not like a heat starting to California. However truly that’s after I began calling myself Cix. So, it isn’t my beginning identify. My beginning identify is totally different. I believe lots of people, after they make enormous life selections, they often wish to change themselves and who they had been and every part. And Cix was my on-line [00:02:00] identification.

However yeah, a brief story about why I got here as much as San Francisco is I used to be working in know-how, in a rudimentary sense. I didn’t perceive all of the tech lingo and all this VC nonsense that we have now up right here. However I used to be in California on the time and I heard about this app known as Yo. And it was a push notification app, and all of the app did was if you press your pal’s identify and it could do a push notification and mentioned, “yo”. And that raised thousands and thousands of {dollars}. And I used to be like, “I don’t know what the fuck they’re smoking in San Francisco.”

Preston Lewis: Like a Silicon Valley, a Silicon Valley episode.

Cix Liv: They’re out of their fucking minds. Yeah, in order that’s why got here as much as San Francisco, and now I’ve been caught right here for eight years. However, that’s the story of how I made up right here “I used to be like, wow, these guys are nuts.” And I would like be a part of that as a result of…

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. That’s superior.

Preston Lewis: I like it was like Metropolis of Trade. I might simply think about what you had been like envisioning was identical to [00:03:00] this Utopia of companies and stuff after which simply to point out up at a warehouse is hilarious.

Cix Liv: Skyrises and I confirmed up and it’s actually simply warehouses. It’s known as Metropolis of Trade, it’s the Industrial District. So undoubtedly not a rosy entrance to California, let’s put it that manner.

Preston Lewis: Sounds such as you’ve had some actually experiences in California, with the Yo app, and the highway journey, and leaving all your folks behind and shifting to the Metropolis of Trade. However, inform our viewers how you bought concerned about VR. Uh, why’d you get concerned about it? What first drew you to it?

Cix Liv: Yeah, so the primary jobs I had in San Francisco had been IT jobs. So, I used to be principally fixing shit for individuals; whether or not it was corporations or excessive internet value individuals. I fastened one of many co-founders of Google’s, like private Wi-Fi.

I arrange Justin Kahn’s Wi-Fi. He in all probability doesn’t know that I used to be that Taskrabbit dude organising his fucking Wi-Fi, however you understand, sometime, [00:04:00] sometime I’ll inform that story.

Ryan DeLuca: Nonetheless have his password?

Cix Liv: Humble first, uh, beginnings right here. So, however my background was very totally different than lots of tech individuals in San Francisco. A variety of tech individuals in San Francisco had been engaged on cell functions, and SaaS merchandise and issues like that. They had been very deep on that finish. I used to be working in IT stuff my entire life, both on the {hardware} facet, or simply fixing stuff on a regular basis.

So I had that distinctive perspective. I acquired into VR, as a result of I used to be working as an IT man and I acquired entry to the DK2. So I wasn’t OG sufficient to say DK1. Sadly, I wasn’t that early into VR. So I acquired the DK2 and I used to be making an attempt it out and I used to be like, “that is actually fucking cool”, nevertheless it wasn’t fairly sufficient to get me to commit my life to it.

I attempted a few of the experiences the place I used to be sitting down utilizing a controller and I used to be shifting my head round. I used to be like, “yeah, that is fairly cool.” The racing stuff, I actually acquired into. However then I acquired entry to the Vive Pre, you understand, the dev equipment earlier than the VIVE got here out. I acquired the Vive [00:05:00] Pre and I had an early construct of a Area Pirate Coach, and I used to be taking part in it in the lounge.

So after I moved to San Francisco, I used to be residing with fifty individuals on this co-living, form of hippie-ish factor the place like individuals would come collectively to attempt to survive the outrageous prices of residing in San Francisco. They might cook dinner one another meals and stuff. So I lived with fifty fucking individuals after I got here to San Francisco.

Ryan DeLuca: And it wasn’t a bunch of homeless tents. It was truly a spot

Cix Liv: Undoubtedly very humble beginnings after I got here to San Francisco. However I had the Vive Pre and I set it up in the lounge there, and I performed Area Pirate Coach. And I bear in mind a second the place I used to be taking pictures out the drones. And a drone shot at me, and the laser was coming in the direction of me, and each single second in my gaming life previous to this… I’ve been obsessive about video video games my complete life. I like to inform those who video video games raised me greater than my dad and mom did. Which, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna admire me saying that publicly, however Zelda raised me greater than my dad. [00:06:00] We’re not gonna get too far into that.

However, I had this second. The laser’s coming in the direction of me, and each single a part of my gamer mind is pondering, press down on the thumbs stick and that is the way you’re gonna dodge it. However then I used to be like, wait a second, my physique is the controller. And I did certainly one of these Matrix strikes, I went like again like this and the laser went over me, and I got here again and it was like, fuck.

That’s the way forward for gaming. I’m the controller now. Holy shit, you understand? And it was just like the convergence of every part that I believed in as a human being, about personifying your individual new identification, about physicality and about video video games all coming collectively.

That excellent connection of who I used to be. And that’s what acquired me into the area.

Ryan DeLuca: I believe all of us have that second, proper in VR, after all everybody does like Richie’s Plank Expertise and “oh, I truly really feel like I used to be falling.”

And like, if you actually [00:07:00] understand that you simply truly really feel such as you’re there. And I believe it makes complete sense that video video games all the time have been a controller or keypad the place you’re pondering that you’re truly in that world and pretending that you simply’re that character.

You’re clearly totally faraway from it on a flat display screen. And it’s the dream that we all the time needed. We all the time pretended we had been that factor after which abruptly VR , now you’re in there, such as you mentioned. Like the primary time you even have to maneuver and also you don’t wanna transfer, since you’re not likely positive the place you’re at in actual area, however then when you do it, it’s fairly magical.

Preston Lewis: Area Pirate coach was wonderful for its time. It was one of many earlier titles and I nonetheless assume they’ve a few of the finest graphics and mechanics in there.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it was unimaginable. I believe the primary sport that may get the crown for the primary health sport in VR, I might say might be Audio Protect.

Audio Protect was one thing that our CTO at Liv completely liked. It wasn’t seen as like a really apparent use case to start with of digital actuality.

You’re carrying this factor in your face, why do you wanna run round, too? Like, even Carmack, even John Carmack, the CTO of Oculus on the time, he wasn’t satisfied in any respect on [00:08:00] energetic motion in VR. He’s like, “why the fuck would I placed on a headset and run round”, you understand?

Ryan DeLuca: Persons are gonna wanna sit down. And even the primary expertise with the Oculus, it was like an Xbox controller and it was the 2 cameras in entrance, in the event you solely had two. You couldn’t even transfer all the way in which, uh, in a circle. And so it did appear to make sense. And we have now the identical story, like, we heard him say that.

After which now after all he’s speaking about exercising in VR on a regular basis with Beat Saber.

Cix Liv: The final time I see him, he’s acquired the forearms and every part’s, like, these are Beat Saber arms, you understand?

Preston Lewis: “These are Beat Saber arms”, that’s superior.

Ryan DeLuca: In order that then led you into beginning corporations within the XR area. First one being Liv. You wanna inform us a little bit bit about co-founding that and the way that went and what you discovered from that?

Cix Liv: You understand, I used to be tremendous concerned about VR, after which there was this co-working area in San Francisco known as Add, which it was an awesome place for individuals to come back collectively.

I do know there’s been controversy about Add, however I had lots of constructive experiences there. [00:09:00] Particularly with some members of the crew. The man who permitted me to be a part of this co-living area was a man named Oz. Ouncesran all of the blended actuality stuff on the location.

And after I met Oz, he had this inexperienced display screen room and he was doing blended actuality the place he was placing individuals within the sport and exhibiting all people outdoors of VR what it was wish to be in VR. And after I noticed him doing that, it answered one of many greatest basic issues that we had in our area, which was , “what the fuck are you doing?” Proper? When you see somebody in a headset and so they’re sitting down and so they’re identical to, going like this, like the primary inclination lots of people had is “are they watching porn?” Like, what the fuck are they doing in that headset? You understand? Um…

Ryan DeLuca: And it turned out fifty % of the time, that was true.

Cix Liv: To your VR. I might say that was in all probability true. Let’s be sincere. However you understand, once we moved to love full physique monitoring, in the event you had been to take a look at somebody taking part in Beat Saber and never have any context in any respect, proper?

You’d be like, “what?” Like, “is that this individual tripping balls or [00:10:00] one thing?” ” What the hell are they doing?” However then if you took the digital world and also you, and also you confirmed individuals the context of what was occurring, it went from dorky to chill.

And I’m a robust believer that know-how shifts occur if you make one thing dorky, cool. It’s so simple as that. And so, in the event you take a look at the evolution of electrical vehicles, Elon Musk actually known as his line “horny”. Proper? As a result of, electrical vehicles as much as that had been like sensible vehicles and stuff like that, the place all people thought electrical vehicles had been fucking dorky. Proper?

And so one of many huge issues that I all the time take a look at on this area is, how can we make this cool? After which Zuckerberg is available in there and makes it probably the most dorky shit on the planet? Anyway. Little little bit of a tangent, however Liv was in a position to talk one thing that was inherently dorky and make it cool. And in addition enable individuals a window into VR, so you can see what the individual was doing in actual time.

And so, Ounceswas doing this. I used to be like, “that is wonderful.” [00:11:00] After which how can we create a product out of this? And in order that turned the large query. Among the those who I used to reside with on this fifty individual co-op had moved into their very own house. Their names had been AJ and Pierre.

So that they had been my two pals. I like went to them and I principally co-oped their front room into an enormous blended actuality inexperienced display screen. And I used to be sleeping on the sofa and like setting this up of their front room. And we simply acquired obsessive about it. I like to consider it form of like, you understand, as youngsters you’d report your self in a cassette participant and faux you had been radio jockeys or one thing?

I really feel like we had been form of having that second the place we had this inexperienced display screen after which AJ went in there with an excellent saiyan hat on, and there was this sport the place you can have mini weapons. It was known as Sirius Sam. And he had this video the place he would go in and he had mini weapons in his arm and he had an excellent saiyan factor.

It was simply us doing ridiculous stuff. And AJ had [00:12:00] expertise within the startups, extra instantly and the way to communicate to traders and no matter. And we acquired into Techstars from there. And, Liv is doing fairly properly proper now. I believe they only raised eight and a half million, and that’s the story of Liv.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s so true what you’re saying although, it’s so obscure what persons are doing contained in the headset. And in the event you see it even on a flat display screen, it will probably even actually be tough. We battle with that lots of Black Field. Like how do you present individuals? We nonetheless do, how do you present individuals what you’re doing?

And we create some totally different form of inexperienced display screen sort of environments, nevertheless it’s simply so tough and such an enormous downside that Liv with fixing, which remains to be an issue and folks nonetheless battle with that, however simply how nice it’s been to see what Liv has completed to, to assist with that.

Cix Liv: I want they might make like a one click on blended actuality associate with a digital camera firm, and simply press the button and go for it. However, uh…

Ryan DeLuca: It’s coming, it’ll come out finally.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, to piggyback on that, one of many cool issues that we actually admire you doing all through your profession to this point has been taking this platform method to constructing your initiatives and merchandise. And yeah, the entire trade has massively [00:13:00] benefited from these efforts. I in all probability enterprise to guess that Liv is possibly the primary piece of software program used for blended actuality movies. And I’d in all probability say it’s most, if not all, of the viral VR movies had been in all probability made with Liv software program as properly.

Black Field VR, once we first used your software program, we noticed individuals lastly perceive, like “oh, wait a minute, you’re in an area” and “oh, wait a minute, you’re interacting with a machine and also you’re doing health actions?” And so, actually enormous due to you and your crew for doing that, as a result of I believe it’s been superior for the trade.

Cix Liv: Yeah. The Beat Saber stuff was a loopy story.

We had been working with somebody who’s a fireplace spinner, her identify was Swan. So the story of the viral occasion with Beat Saber, I don’t know if I’ll ever have an occasion like that earlier than, like, some individuals say “viral” after they have like one million views or one thing. This shit hit a billion views, like globally throughout every part. There was one video on Fb that hit 2 hundred million by itself. That degree of virality I’ve by no means seen earlier than, and it occurred to me. [00:14:00] We had been simply creating movies and it was normally simply me, or simply some individuals I do know, and I undoubtedly amp it up, however, you understand, males in video video games and stuff, nothing tremendous novel about that.

So I had a pal named Swan and he or she went in there and he or she was identical to recording movies of herself. And we weren’t even pondering an entire lot about it, we had been identical to recording these movies after which posted it to YouTube. The primary one she had the place she had like a Jedi outfit on, after which the video that went viral was the second that we posted on YouTube. And it began taking off a little bit bit, however nothing like outrageous. I fell asleep, and I awakened and I seemed down my cellphone, it was like 300 notifications and I used to be like, “what the fuck is happening?” And I opened it up, it was like, you’re on Sport Cease, and also you’re on the entrance of that and far and wide.

That they had taken our fucking video, and we had a watermark on the underside proper, and so they had identical to, blurred it out. I might name that second the [00:15:00] shopper occasion of VR. Earlier than then we had been like early adopters that thought this geeky stuff was cool, however at that second it broke out of that restricted market that we had, as a result of movies can attain everybody. I’ll all the time keep in mind that second. It was undoubtedly a mixture of a bunch of issues. And you understand, the most important studying that I had from Liv, that I take to the subsequent corporations after, which is vital for this podcast, was that physicality was so important to speaking to individuals why VR was fascinating. As a result of anytime that we had blended actuality or a video of somebody like sitting there doing one thing, nobody gave a shit. However if you had added physicality and folks had been like dancing and concerned within the content material, it could, it could carry out like 100 occasions higher.

The best way that I like to consider that’s the distinction between a film and a play. So in a play, you’re not essentially seeing the facial actions of somebody. You’re form of like eliminated and farther [00:16:00] away. Um, so it’s a must to be loud and expressive. And since our face is roofed and also you’re not like speaking, you understand, the nuances of your face, it’s a must to use physique language.

And it’s the identical factor that occurs in sports activities, proper? Like if you watch a sport, you’re not their face, you’re their physique, proper? And so the most important studying from Liv that acquired me into understanding the significance of physicality past my very own ardour with it, was nobody gave a shit concerning the content material if individuals weren’t energetic, they only didn’t care. They had been like, okay, somebody’s being dorky in a headset. No. You understand, I don’t care.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s such a great level. Yeah. I imply, simply the way in which you place it, the physicality. And folks like to look at individuals doing bodily actions, proper? And sports activities and health. And so it’s simply this excellent mixture of that Beat Saber video got here out. I believe all of us had been a little bit bit shocked. “What is that this factor with, like, it’s one thing to do with lightsabers and music?” Yeah, it was simply in every single place. After which that’s once we had our non- early adopter or non- VR like knowledgeable [00:17:00] pals asking us about it. Like, “oh, that’s like sport with the lightsabers”, you understand? And it’s like all people knew about it.

Cix Liv: Yeah.

Preston Lewis: I believe Beat Saber owes you some royalties.

Cix Liv: I used to be in there serving to them so much with advertising within the early days. I believe that the success of Beat Saber, was not essentially simply Beat Saber itself. It launched with only some songs, six to seven songs. It was the content material that made it fascinating, after which there was a really massive modding group that got here out of it of about 4 hundred thousand individuals. And that modding group made it, in order that they principally took the bottom fundamentals of Beat Saber and allowed you to place no matter track you needed in there. And I believe realistically, if it weren’t for these movies, after which subsequently that modding Discord to keep up its relevance.

After which the ultimate piece of that was that it turned the flagship for the Quest. I believe these had been the three huge, like, moments that you can say that linked to the success of Beat Saber. Each, six to 9 months, there was one thing that hit proper on the proper time. It was an enormous quantity of luck [00:18:00] concerned, to be sincere. That preliminary launch was completely timed; the sport got here out, with a bunch of fanfare and all these movies; after which it turned the most important VR discord on the planet of a whole bunch of hundreds of individuals.

They really needed to begin kicking individuals out, as a result of it went over Discord’s restrict. Had been creating mods with like totally different swords and songs and no matter. And that acquired across the copyright situation the place most builders needed to license each single track, which will get extremely costly. So they’d this entire neighborhood primarily making infinite content material.

After which the ultimate piece of that’s when it got here out on the Quest, it transformed so properly to the Quest and, it didn’t have a few of the points that a few of the different VR video games had. Like Survios, for instance, couldn’t port lots of their video games to the Quest due to the constancy that was essential to port it.

So there have been lots of builders who created actually wonderful experiences who had a very onerous time porting it right down to the Quest. So there have been like three [00:19:00] huge issues that basically pushed the success of Beat Saber to the purpose the place it hit fifty % system penetration of your complete VR market. It was on over fifty % of all headsets on the planet, which was…

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Cix Liv: That’s nuts. That’s nuts.

Ryan DeLuca: It, it’s humorous you say that, as a result of it’s so true. Like, the customized content material, the customized songs, like, that was one of the best half about it, proper? It’s like, there was so many various songs and maps, like countless quantity, proper? And you can discover any songs that you simply favored and all kinds of loopy stuff.

And naturally individuals would fee one of the best ones. You’d study new songs. There’s so many, a lot music that I had simply discovered about that I’d by no means even heard about, that now I’m a fan of by means of that. And to me, that’s what sort of ruined it when it went to Quest, as a result of it was an ideal expertise for Quest, as a result of wi-fi, you understand, as a result of I used to be all the time planning on the Vive or the, or the Index. However going to wi-fi was simply so nice, you understand, and so they even made the 360 modes and stuff.

However, you understand, it form of leads into the subsequent factor is, top-of-the-line components about Beat Saber being the flagship sport, that turned like actually the primary mainstream sport that launched individuals to VR, was the factor we all the time hear, proper? “Hey, I’ve tried this Beat Saber sport. It was tremendous enjoyable, [00:20:00] I liked it. After which I spotted I’m exercising.” Like, it might have been another VR sport that wasn’t actually an energetic sport that turned the primary huge one, however the truth that the primary huge one had such an train cardio part to it, was additionally actually good for exhibiting health as a strong manner to make use of VR.

So, inform us about YUR that led you into your subsequent huge factor, your subsequent firm.

Cix Liv: Yeah, so, I needed to depart Liv for varied causes. One of many causes was, is the crew principally turned European based mostly and, I had a tough time with the thought of like, shifting to the Czech Republic.

You understand, I hadn’t began an organization pondering I must transfer to the Czech Republic. So I made some selections to make sure that, like, my departure can be okay for the corporate, and AJ turned the CEO, which was, you understand, my roommate manner again then. However I used to be itching to, do one thing once more straight away.

In hindsight, I in all probability ought to have taken a little bit little bit of a break, going straight from, startup 2 hundred miles an hour to a different 2 hundred miles an hour, form of breaks you. However, I [00:21:00] strongly believed in VR health and previous to that I’ve been working a little bit bit with the VR Well being Institute with Aaron, uh, Stanton? Yeah. So, I’ll give him credit score. He noticed VR Health as turning into an enormous factor, and I used to be looking for a method to work with him. And I’ll say this, we had been looking for a method to work collectively, however he strongly believed within the efficacy of every part to love an Nth diploma.

Like, we have to have it peer reviewed. We have to have coronary heart fee trackers which might be validated by no matter. I used to be like, dude, “we simply gotta show to those who persons are fucking exercising.” I used to be making an attempt to determine a method to work with him. He didn’t wish to co-found it with me.

He’s in all probability a little bit mad at me now, no matter, like, shit occurs within the startup world. However I made a decision to not work with him as a result of, he didn’t wish to be a co-founder with me and he was so centered on efficacy of every part. And for me, having constructed a shopper firm earlier than, proving in any respect that persons are doing one thing with the least friction potential is the way you construct a shopper firm, proper?

So my thesis [00:22:00] was, okay, we’re gonna transfer in the direction of a headset that’s now not tethered. I believe health is gonna be certainly one of, if not the most important use case. Folks would snort at my fucking face. Even Aaron had the identical expertise; like, individuals thought we had been a joke, proper? He tells the story about how he was making an attempt to show to those who VR is health and folks would inform him, “no, you’re simply scared, that’s why your coronary heart fee is excessive.” You understand, like zombies are after you. That’s why your coronary heart fee is excessive. It’s not since you’re exercising, it’s since you’re terrified of what’s happening. I’m fucking exercising, man. He was making an attempt to show to those who it was a factor.

I didn’t need to be proved, I believed in it, proper? However I used to be simply, I used to be looking for, you understand, how can we create a shopper product out of this? I began pondering, okay properly, let’s attempt to remedy this in a manner that’s the least friction potential.

I’m quick forwarding a little bit bit right here.

So, one other individual that basically believed in VR health, there weren’t many by the way in which. I bear in mind a gathering that I had with Oculus throughout [00:23:00] OC-6, the place I inform them, I mentioned, “hey, VR Health is gonna be an enormous factor.” They virtually fucking laughed me out of the room. They had been like, “what are you speaking about?”

And I believe that is primarily as a result of the truth that the way in which Fb determines product worth relies off current metrics that they will go right into a PM assembly and say, “hey, that is occurring, we should always try this too.” They’ve a really tough time with foresight, and I believe culturally that’s the greatest downside with Fb, is that they solely function on current information and so they don’t have the foresight to see how one thing can evolve into one thing.

And so, I had that have the place they virtually like laughed me out of a room for pitching VR Health. Anyway, there was one different man who lived in San Francisco who believed in VR Health, and his identify was Dylan.

I met up with Dylan and I used to be like, “dude, VR health is a factor.” I didn’t need to persuade him it was a factor. And that was one of many greatest points that I had with co-founding this firm, is I might go to individuals and so they’d be like, “VR health, [00:24:00] what are you speaking about?”

So Dylan, I didn’t need to persuade him. And so we began, YUR from that. And we acquired into Increase, which was an accelerator right here in San Mateo. Principally it was simply because I believe Adam Draper favored me, and he, you understand, like, if I’m gonna be actual, I believe that’s what occurred. He was like “Cix, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing, man, however I’m a wager on you.” You understand, a type of issues, proper? like Dylan hadn’t even dedicated to being within the firm by then. So I got here again to Dylan and I mentioned, “hey, if you wish to do that, we’re in Increase now, we have now a little bit bit of cash.”

So, we needed to create the least friction method to become involved on this. So our very first product was a mod in Beat Saber. And we already had, going again to what powered Beat Saber, was this large modding neighborhood and it form of skirted round a few of these totally different platform points that we’d have. Like, might we truly combine into Beat Saber formally? In all probability not. Proper? Particularly not proper out of the gate. So, we created this mod for Beat Saber and it turned extremely profitable. We began [00:25:00] principally what YUR was, was a subset, initially, of the Beat Saber modding Discord desirous to train.

And in order that neighborhood that we constructed was, initially, the bottom group, a subset of that Beat Saber modding group. And it was so fascinating, as a result of this was a demographic that nobody else ever appealed to within the health area. It was avid gamers, lots of them, tremendous unhealthy that had been exercising by chance.

And it was virtually like Beat Saber made them really feel like, “I’ve an opportunity now to really be match.” These had been the blokes that you simply’ve seen within the memes the place they’re like consuming chips on the sofa sort. That was our major demographic, proper? Was youngsters who felt apathetic to even the thought of exercising.

And what it was, was a very good Computer virus that made individuals have the arrogance that they really might begin exercising, proper? And that was the subset of the preliminary[00:26:00] neighborhood in YUR, the subset of the beat Saber modding group that realized, “hey, I can truly train.” That was our preliminary product. It went extremely properly. So then we created a Steam based mostly tracker that principally, would take your motion information and estimate very rudimentary, you understand, initially into what energy you had been burning. After which it advanced right into a Quest app that you simply needed to facet load. And we acquired a little bit bit extra fancy over time the place we had been utilizing machine studying to estimate your coronary heart fee based mostly off information that we had on coronary heart fee. However, the purpose was principally to create a Fitbit that didn’t require any {hardware}. And that was form of the underlying purpose of YUR. And, yeah, it labored extremely properly. I believe we turned the quantity two utility in Quest for a given time. Till it, uh, was de platformed.

Preston Lewis: So one query I wish to ask [00:27:00] is, simply seems like you’re very linked to customers by means of these initiatives and merchandise you’re constructing. Which I believe is de facto vital for our viewers to listen to, as a result of lots of people constructing these experiences, you understand, individuals method it from a bunch of various angles. Whether or not it’s, “hey, we have now a intestine feeling, we’re simply gonna do it”, or, “we don’t essentially want the validation as a result of we simply be ok with it.”

Appears like, from what you’ve talked about, and from what we collect, you’re the other. You after all have the intestine feeling, however seems like you might have actually stayed near your customers all through the journey, and listened to them all through the method. So possibly only a fast little temporary hit on that, for our viewers. What would you advocate as persons are constructing the product so far as figuring out which route to go, validating the issues they’re constructing and issues like that?

Cix Liv: It’s a must to have a suggestions loop along with your customers, proper? One of many issues that I did that you can argue will not be a great factor for a CEO to be doing, and at scale that’s true, is [00:28:00] that each single adverse assessment, I might attain out to that individual and ask them “why?” And I’d be like, okay, “so why are you leaving us a adverse assessment?”

They usually’d be like, “properly, the UI right here sucks”, or “it’s affecting the efficiency of what I’m doing” or “I don’t assume it’s correct.” Proper? And, I chase after the those who didn’t like our product to seek out out why they didn’t like our product, as an alternative of simply being like, “oh, man, I’m so unhappy individuals don’t like what we’re doing.” Proper? I assume the distinction between me and a few individuals who work in tech, is I get punched within the face and I simply see it as that is what I’m doing. Proper? If you begin an organization, in the event you don’t wish to be punched within the face, get a fucking day job, sincere to God. Go get a fucking day job. And if the worst factor that’s gonna occur to you is your supervisor is gonna be upset at you, that’s a great day. You guys know this, like, in the event you wanna be a founder, you might have to have the ability to like get punched within the face each fucking day and do it once more. One of many lowest factors I’ve ever had, a little bit little bit of a tangent right here, is I pitched [00:29:00] throughout Techstars, and that is again earlier than anyone actually cared an entire lot about VR. And I gave this huge impassionate speech on why I consider digital actuality is gonna be the longer term.

And it was like, oh, I felt so good about myself. And the second I finished, an investor raised their hand. And he goes, “the second you mentioned VR I cease listening.” And I’m like, “man, fuck you, dude.” Like, what’s that? Such as you discredit a complete class. Like, I don’t care. Fuck off, man.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s form of loopy, we see the identical factor. Like VCs, lots of occasions traders, they all the time speak about their future pondering visionaries, they wanna be part of like issues that folks haven’t seen but. However if you actually speak to ’em about one thing that isn’t already mainstream or huge or that everyone else is already investing into, you’re proper, it simply doesn’t actually compute to them. And it’s the identical factor, such as you mentioned, with like huge corporations. I might say it’s not simply Fb, it’s virtually all huge corporations. Like, they need information that proves it, and that’s actually what creates that chance for entrepreneurs is to get laughed [00:30:00] within the face. And the fascinating factor about being laughed in your face is half the time you ought to be laughed at, and the opposite half, it’s the subsequent huge factor. And it’s all the time unattainable on the time, with out wanting again looking back to know, which route it truly is gonna go.

Cix Liv: I believe the toughest factor as an entrepreneur, for me, is with the ability to distill constructive criticism from assholes, proper?

As a result of typically the individuals who you assume are assholes, are literally providing you with good suggestions. And typically the assholes are simply assholes, proper? And I believe that it’s actually onerous to differentiate the 2 typically, proper? Like, the place somebody is providing you with suggestions, however you’re like, it’s identical to, it’s, it’s so private to you what you’re doing. You’re like, “okay, thanks, however fuck you”, you understand? You understand?

Preston Lewis: That’s humorous.

Cix Liv: Like instantaneous…

Preston Lewis: That’s my child.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it’s like your child. It’s like somebody entering into and being like, “man, your child’s ugly.” And I’m like, “properly, it’s my child?”

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah. “What’s improper with you?” That’s humorous. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: Then years later you look again at footage, you’re like, “man, that child was form of [00:31:00] ugly.”

Preston Lewis: That individual was proper. That individual was proper.

Ryan DeLuca: I assume, I imply we’re joking, however like, it kinda is true. You look again on the enterprise you had, like, once we first got here out with Black Field, the onboarding expertise was simply not good in any respect. However, like, we simply liked it a lot, after which once we first began getting suggestions, individuals had been saying so many adverse issues. And naturally the primary response you wanna have is, like, “they’re improper” and like all this stuff. However then, you sleep on it and you consider, okay, we have to make these adjustments, and it’s lots of onerous work to make adjustments, however then you definitely return and also you make these adjustments.

Then you definitely look again at your child, on the time, and understand, like, yeah, that wasn’t good. And, and hopefully that’s all the time the case. Hopefully you look two years from now and all the time take a look at what you’re presently doing and say it was not practically pretty much as good as it’s now. In any other case, you’ve been stagnant and hasn’t transfer ahead. Haven’t listened to that suggestions.

Cix Liv: I believe listening to your customers is totally foundational, as a result of in the event you speak to your folks, they’re all the time gonna offer you a constructive spin, or normally or typically you simply have a pal that shits on every part, proper? And so your folks are normally actually not a great proxy for whether or not or not what you’re doing is sweet. And household is even worse. You understand, household’s both [00:32:00] all the time gonna be adverse or all the time gonna be constructive, relying on in the event that they assume you’re earning money or not. Proper? So that they’re, they’re horrible for suggestions loops. After which your co-founder, you’ll be able to continually be overly optimistic, since you each consider in the identical issues.

So that they’re normally additionally not a great proxy. How do you get out of the bubble that’s your mind, into market actuality? And the market actuality normally simply exists with the those who use your product. And getting them to really talk and inform you is, I believe probably the most beneficial type of suggestions in the event you’re constructing a shopper firm. Attending to the those who like your product or don’t like your product and “why.”

Preston Lewis: A bit of comply with as much as that’s, do you might have any small ideas so far as the way you go about intelligently accumulating that suggestions? Or is it simply straight up scouring the Fb posts, organising a Discord? Or do you might have particular issues that you simply do, for instance, create surveys, do focus teams, or how does that course of go for you with accumulating the suggestions?

Cix Liv: [00:33:00] When you talk with an individual, like, instantly, it’s form of just like the distinction between speaking to somebody by means of 4Chan and speaking to somebody by means of their face. Like face-to-face, proper?

in the event you’re on 4Chan, you’re gonna shit on every part. It’s virtually like straight from mind stem to face, proper? Like “this fucking is horrible, that shit blah, blah, blah, blah.” After which after they speak to you, they’re gonna be like, “properly, I believe you need to, you understand, enhance this” or no matter. Proper? So, I believe it’s getting each of these views, proper? As a result of what you miss if you’re talking to their customers are those that didn’t even care sufficient to speak to you, proper? Often the customers that you simply’re speaking to are someplace between precise customers and professional customers, proper?

And also you’re normally getting not lots of the suggestions of the those who simply turned immediately, proper? They don’t wanna fucking reply to you. They don’t give a shit, they don’t wish to inform you what their expertise was. So that you’re gonna have a blind spot on that class [00:34:00] of potential customers, proper?

So for these, you’re gonna need to, like, discover it anecdotally by means of like Fb posts or dangerous critiques, and for this reason I might all the time chase the dangerous assessment individuals. When you’re constructing that shopper product to grasp what’s churning individuals from the start and, what enhancements can I make for these informal customers after which, the professional customers, ought to we cater to them or not, you understand?

So I, I believe that getting these three views and possibly bucketing individuals in these three issues, is an efficient method to iterate in your product.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Thanks a lot for that Cix. In order that’s all for this episode, we determined to separate this podcast into two episodes as a result of Cix had a lot great things to share with you all. So be part of us for half two of this episode, the place we’ll dig deeper into Cix’s upcoming XR undertaking and we’ll hear extra of his superior insights. We’ll see, on the subsequent episode.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that needs to be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to e-mail [00:35:00] us at podcast VR health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You may as well be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, maintain creating and dreaming up the subsequent huge factor that can revolutionize the world of health.